User talk:Hoary

If I've posted something on your talk page, please reply there rather than here. Any new question or comment at the bottom of the page, please. If you post something here, I'll reply here.

Teahouse protection

Hi Hoary. Thanks for protecting the Teahouse. Given how many IP editors use the Teahouse to ask questions, it might be better to use a much shorter duration even though this specific LTA is so disruptive. Regards. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 04:25, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Daniel Quinlan, the Teahouse attracts mere attention-seekers -- plural. But an encyclopedia needs mentally mature editors. (Only indirectly related to age: Of course there are mature twelve-year-olds and immature -- or plain senile -- eighty-year-olds.) The mature can wait a few minutes, or even half an hour, before seeing that their question/plea is visible to all. Those demanding instant attention would be better off frequenting some other website. So I have no qualms about the one-week setting, though another administrator might disagree. -- Hoary (talk) 04:43, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Indeed, I disagree. As the log shows, we have typically set shorter protection durations for key help pages and noticeboards—usually several hours—when handling this LTA. Longer protections do more to hinder those seeking help without significantly deterring this behavior, as he typically shifts to other pages. That said, I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill. Regards. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 05:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Daniel Quinlan, I've brought it down to one day. Anyone wanting to reduce it further is free to do so: no need to ask me. (Incidentally, I'm unaccustomed to this LTA; which other pages does he like to blather in?) -- Hoary (talk) 05:56, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll email you. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 06:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Detty December In Ghana

Hello, Hoary I need help with the page Detty December In Ghana someone moved the page from Detty December (Nigeria) to Detty December In Ghana there is already a page that talks about Detty December in ghana the directions hatnote on top of the page already helps readers to differentiate and know the difference. Could you help move it back to Detty December (Nigeria) as the information in the whole article contradicts the title of the page? I tried moving the page myself but it said "The edit appears to have already been undone" I don't understand what that means because it looks like the page has not been undone also what is an autoconfirmed user. Bernadine okoro (talk) 21:38, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Hoary and Bernadine okoro: I moved "Detty December In Ghana" back to its original title (Detty December (Nigeria)) and reverted the changes made over the past day, as Detty December (Ghana) already exists. Iiii I I I (talk) 22:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for acting on this, Iiii I I I, while I had my computer turned off and so didn't see the request. Bernadine okoro, if Detty December "is a thing" in both Nigeria and Ghana, is there nothing much like it (very likely with a different, French name) in Benin or Togo? Though a greater mystery to me is en:Wikipedia's lack of an article on Benin–Nigeria relations. (It seems that no such article has ever existed. More amazingly, there's no article "Benin–XYZ relations" for any nation XYZ.) The coverage here of Benin–Nigeria relations seems to be limited to an article about the border, very brief coverage within Foreign relations of Benin#Bilateral_relations, and an even briefer copy of this within Foreign relations of Nigeria#Africa. So on the off-chance that you're looking for a new subject to write about that would contrast a little with what's already in your "To create" list, you might consider Benin–Nigeria relations. (Incidentally, not "Nigeria–Benin relations" but instead "Benin–Nigeria relations", because a rule says that the two names must be in alphabetical order; so for example "San Marino–United States relations".) -- Hoary (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Hoary I think an article that would talk about an equivalent of Detty December in Togo and Benin would be an article that simply talks about the December period in the two countries as I don't think or know if the two countries have a term or a word for their diaspora returning home and citizens in their countries going home in mass for the Christmas period. So an article about the usual merriment during the December period would do. Regarding an article on Benin–Nigeria relations I am definitely interested unfortunately for me I picked more classes than usual this semester so I don't think I would have the time for an article like that I have added the topic to my "To create" list. I will definitely work on that in the future also thank you for the rule tip I will be remembering that for the article. Bernadine okoro (talk) 03:29, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Your request for correcting the references.

Dear Hoary,

Thank you for looking at the draft Draft:Cedric Koukjian# I have tried to modify the references as you requested, I am finding the formatting a bit difficult though. The answers to your comment are below:

1/ Modified AD Spain with the relevant information

2/Le Carougeois is a independent newspaper still in existence. Here is a link to the article and the front cover of the newspaper https://ibb.co/xs6msVx and https://ibb.co/c6274nB

3/for AD middle east changed to the web version so to have a link as you requested

Please let me know where I can help to provide more information and if possible to help me correct the reference formatting on the draft.

Thank you

Aston3421 (talk) 06:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Aston3421, I've done some reformatting. A full explanation of formatting references with a "cite" template is Template:Citation/doc, which is (necessarily) very complex; for a far simpler explanation (which has to omit a lot of information), start at Help:Introduction and the link to "Referencing", on the left if you're using the "source editor" (which I recommend, together with syntax highlighting); on the right if you're using the "visual editor" (said to be easier at the start, but seems to lead to some problems later). As for your draft, see if you can find and present some other sources with detail about your subject -- reliable sources, written by people not related to him, and not based on interviews. -- Hoary (talk) 07:37, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the help on the formatting, it is indeed a bit complex. Concerning the reference there are a few on artnet such as

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/since-geneva-cedric-pierre-koukjian-2235131

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/spotlight-artist-cedric-koukjian-2106794

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/7-questions-since-geneva-pierre-cedric-koukjian-2360877

However I am not sure if they qualify. Are the references included in the draft not valid? Aston3421 (talk) 09:33, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Much of what's in the first two should be usable, if you're careful about it. But not the third, because it's an interview. I see that you took the photograph of CK that's in your draft. In what capacity do you know him? -- Hoary (talk) 12:24, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying the first 2 references. I will look as to how to incorporate them, much of what is in it is already synthesized in the first part of the article.

As for my connection with the article, it is simply myself. This has been discussed with the admin @331dot over here User talk:Aston3421 where I clarified the situation and have been encouraged to work a bit more on the article before submitting it again which is what I am trying to do now with new sources and more details. Aston3421 (talk) 16:26, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

I've changed the template at the top from "Coi" to "Autobiography". A lot of work needs to be done to this draft. A randomly chosen example: He is known for his meticulous craftsmanship, employing materials such as steel, marble, and granite. Each piece demonstrates a harmony of industrial precision and artisanal skill. Koukjian's work reflects his interest in the interplay between ancient cultural heritage and contemporary design. The first and second of those three sentences cite (or possibly just the second cites) something in Anzeiger von Saanen; the third doesn't cite anything at all. The "something" turns out to be this article. Let's put aside the first sentence. Yes, what the article says is compatible with "Each piece demonstrates a harmony of industrial precision and artisanal skill"; but (if Google Translate is accurate, and if I'm not too sleepy to understand properly) it doesn't actually say this. -- Hoary (talk) 22:58, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer, I will start checking each sentence and modifying where I find a mistake. Any more help from you would be so much appreciated. Aston3421 (talk) 09:51, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

DYK for Jindřich Marco

On 25 January 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Jindřich Marco, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that an irreverent photograph of Czechoslovak president Klement Gottwald brought a ten-year sentence for the photojournalist Jindřich Marco, who had to serve seven years in uranium mines? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jindřich Marco. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Jindřich Marco), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 7,641 views (636.8 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of January 2025 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:30, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Nomination of Comprised of for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Comprised of, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comprised of until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:02, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Question about Citations

Hi Hoary, I was wondering if you could help me with something. I’m trying to check if any of the original sources cited in the four biography articles I published contain personal identifiers, like usernames in the URL—especially in PDFs. Since some PDFs can display either the uploader’s name or the name of the person who opens them, do you have any suggestions on how to spot this easily? I just want to make sure that no identifying information was accidentally included in the citations. Logger67 (talk) 02:09, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Logger67, I've seen institution names ("University of [Such and such]", etc) and dates/times of downloads appear on the downloaded PDFs. However, for the article Elisabeth Gasteiger (which I picked because it was mentioned near the foot of your talk page) you don't obviously link to any PDFs that had been previously downloaded from elsewhere. (NB I merely moved my cursor over a few of the links, not all. And I clicked on none.) If I were to click on the link to a DOI while connected via the LAN of Podunk State A&M (Department of Caprine and Ovine Orthodontics), then not ETH Zürich (or wherever it is that you are) but instead Podunk State A&M would be what I might read on the PDF as I viewed it on my screen. ¶ I don't recall having downloaded a PDF that appeared to have identifying information in its URL, though I may have been unobservant. Some PDFs seem to have session IDs, without which the download won't work; these session IDs might conceivably identify you or at least point to where you are. Usually I've found that the publisher of such a PDF links to it from a web page, and the web page lacks an session ID, or other similar mumbo-jumbo, so linking to the web page is not problematic. ¶ As for the article Elisabeth Gasteiger, though: "ExPASy: The proteomics server for in-depth protein knowledge and analysis" is among the article titles that are linked. But why link it, when you have anyway (and very properly) linked to the article's DOI? (Also, if you can anyway specify a journal article's DOI, I don't understand how additionally providing the journal's ISSN is of any help ... unless perhaps you envisage some future collapse of the entire DOI system. Yet en:Wikipedia's "Manual of style" has strange demands; perhaps this is one of them, though if it is then it's one that I've always ignored.) -- Hoary (talk) 03:09, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look! I’m still learning, so I really appreciate the help.

I did use PDFs in Judith Warren’s and possibly one other article, so that’s where my concern comes from. It’s not really the DOI links I’m worried about, but rather the PDFs themselves—I’m concerned that I may have accidentally included a link with my personal username from when I accessed the document.

Good to know about institution names and timestamps appearing in PDFs based on where they’re accessed. It sounds like this depends more on the viewing context rather than the original link itself. I’ll also make sure to check whether any of my PDFs have session IDs and, if so, replace them with stable webpage links when possible. Thanks again. Appreciate all the help. Logger67 (talk) 05:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Logger67, if you link to a reference whose title is linked (other than to the DOI) and for which you also provide a linked DOI (which of course can't have a session ID), I'll always click on the latter (because it will be at least as stable). So why also provide the link (which might include a session ID) from the title? -- Hoary (talk) 05:35, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your explanation! I’m still learning, so I appreciate the guidance. I got confused when I looked it up and wasn’t sure if I needed to include both the title link and the DOI link—I included the title link because I didn’t know any better. But I see your point that the DOI is more stable, so I can remove the title link if it’s redundant or potentially problematic. Logger67 (talk) 05:41, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Francis Hetling

Hello Hoary,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Francis Hetling for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a namespace that's not for articles.

If you don't want Francis Hetling to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

ROY is WAR Talk! 00:40, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, belligerent Roy (and also Explicit, who kindly deleted it): I should of course have taken the option not to create a redirect, and intended to take this option; but in the event I sleepily forgot. Soon I shall "self-medicate" with caffeine. -- Hoary (talk) 01:48, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Featured article review for Felice Beato

I have nominated Felice Beato for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 03:30, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

74.71.130.70

Why don't you wear suit? Zacharpolis (talk) 01:21, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

What an odd question, Zacharpolis! And this isn't the first time you've asked it. I ignored it the first time, but clearly you want an answer. Why do you ask, and is there some relation between (A) suit-wearing, yourself or myself, and (B) this IP number? -- Hoary (talk) 02:16, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Citing theses

Howdy! In the Felice Beato talk page, you said: "an MA thesis and thus unusable as a reference". I've been a very sporadic contributor for a long time and I'm undoubtedly ignorant of many current WP standards, but why aren't we able to cite an MA thesis that is publicly available online? Pinkville (talk) 19:05, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Because appearance in a master's thesis is no guarantee of quality. Too many are the results of only a few months' study by somebody who as little as a year previously had no knowledge whatever of the subject area, and whose work is overseen by a prof who's pushed to oversee a too many of these enterprises while also being pushed for time by administrative work ostensibly imposed to ensure "efficiency". True, even publication by a reputable university press is no guarantee of the quality of the resulting book, but thanks to quality control systems the risks are significantly lower. (Yes, academic publishing is a wasteful mess, and sometimes all we can do is laugh.) ¶ Or see WP:RS on "scholarship". -- Hoary (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2025 (UTC)