Talk:List of best-selling video games
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Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
[edit]The Games own Wikipedia page lists the game as having 24 Million in Sales. Which would knock "Nintendogs" out and put it with "Kinect Adventures!". The "VG sales wiki" has the game at 51.8 Million and includes sources, that's very dubious though and would need a thorough look. However, I do think it should be credited for it's 24 Million currently. Cider621 (talk) 02:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Skyrim's wikipedia page said it has sold 60+ million yet its nowhere on this list 2601:3C5:8180:31D0:1535:2DBD:E08D:330A (talk) 06:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not just Wikipedia. Todd Howard, on behalf of Bethesda, already mentioned in early 2023 during an IGN interview that Skyrim has sold over 60 million copies. From its position in the Steam charts, one can infer that it’s likely already at 70 million or even more. But not even adding Skyrim with 60 million copies (which is probably still far too low) is just insane! The fact that this page is protected from edits is pure nonsense because the administrators and those with editing rights seem to deliberately ignore this fact! This edit protection ends up having the exact opposite effect of what it’s supposed to prevent!
- It really frustrates me! There was even a discussion about this before, and although an interview can be cited as a trustworthy source, the response was that “Todd Howard isn’t a source.” However, he speaks on behalf of Bethesda, making him one of the most reliable sources possible. This person must have some personal issue with Bethesda or Skyrim… or they’re just a conspiracy theorist. KollektivXXIV (talk) 19:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- It's just a Wikipedia article, calm down. This page is protected to prevent potential vandals from disrupting the page or adding false material, see WP:PROTECTION. And please do not use wording like "This person must have some personal issue with Bethesda or Skyrim… or they’re just a conspiracy theorist." It's completely uncalled for. As for the response to the sales number itself, see the comment I already posted below. λ NegativeMP1 19:14, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- From the looks of it you are the only vandal here is you. Todd Howard is a high ranking employee and the director for the series. He's an incredibly good source, every other wiki page on Skyrim accepts him as a source making your refusal suspect, and the basic fact is that sales estimates for a decade ago would put it high enough to be on this list above nintendogs, let alone now.
- This page should either be update to add it, or the info added in a second column for games that have sales numbers that dont meet your arbitrary standards. Reptile7383 (talk) 19:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- To add more to my comment, theres a clear weird double standard because if we look at the citations for other games on the list, the source is often very much the same. Minecrafts 300,000,000 estimate comes from a comment made by the head of the studio and not independently varied just like Todd Howards. There's clearly something odd about this pages choice to admit games that are well known to by the highest selling games of all time. Reptile7383 (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you didn't call me a "vandal" per WP:NOPERSONALATTACKS. And for the record, this is not my opinion that I am upholding, but rather the consensus of several editors during this discussion that concluded that the "sales figure" provided are unsatisfactory. I wasn't even in that discussion, but instead I am simply the one holding it up. And there is a clear difference between an official statement by the studio behind Minecraft, and an off-hand random comment about Skyrim from an interview not even about the game (also, I'm pretty sure Minecraft's sales figures up to 300 million were actually in fiscal reports, as I remember reading those reports a while ago). You're open to notify the editors who participated in that original discussion for their opinions again to try and change the consensus, but I suspect that it will remain the same. λ NegativeMP1 19:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- And we would all appreciate this page actually reflect reality instead of you calling others that want this "vandals". You are clearly defending this stance, so it is your opinion.
- As I stated if you are unwilling to take the actual words of the director of the game for select games, then that should be noted on the article itself with games listing "estimated" sales so that this article doesn't mislead people into thinking that these are are definitely the best selling games. If people cite this article then they'd likely be spreading misinformation and further push the idea of wiki being an awful source. Reptile7383 (talk) 13:25, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- I did not call you or anyone asking for Skyrim on this page a "vandal". By vandal, I mean someone that might make up a game, claim if sold a gazillion copies, and edit war for its inclusion. That's vandalism, while at best Skyrim's inclusion on this page is a content dispute. But again, there is consensus against listing it. And yes, I do agree with it, because I don't think a random line said in an interview about a completely different game is a suitable sales figure. Also, it's not "misinformation" or an "awful source". Just arguably incomplete, which the article perfectly makes clear by stating that it is a dynamic list. λ NegativeMP1 17:10, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Four people voting isn't a "consensus", and the fact that you had to lie to distance yourself from the opinion at first tells everybody what they need to know about the vandalism of this page. Its 100% misinformation when everybody can objectively know that Skyrim has sold enough to be somewhere on this list. This is not "incomplete". Its wrong. Dynamic lists means that they change, not that the purposefully exclude games that should be on the list when we have known that its sold enough to be on this list over a decade ago.
- Things like this give wiki a bad name. Reptile7383 (talk) 14:18, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
- I did not call you or anyone asking for Skyrim on this page a "vandal". By vandal, I mean someone that might make up a game, claim if sold a gazillion copies, and edit war for its inclusion. That's vandalism, while at best Skyrim's inclusion on this page is a content dispute. But again, there is consensus against listing it. And yes, I do agree with it, because I don't think a random line said in an interview about a completely different game is a suitable sales figure. Also, it's not "misinformation" or an "awful source". Just arguably incomplete, which the article perfectly makes clear by stating that it is a dynamic list. λ NegativeMP1 17:10, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Well, Todd Howard would be a primary source because he speaks for Bethesda. This isn’t what Wikipedia is built on, we are built on reliable, independent, and secondary sources. The “VG Sales” fandom isn’t reliable either because it’s from fan made website. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 19:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
- Every single source on this article is a primary source, as there is no other indicator of video game sales. Rvanee (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Most sales data in this article either comes from investor reports or official announcements by the publisher/developer. The reason the 60 million number for Skyrim is being dismissed is because of the manner in which it was given—an off-the-cuff remark in an interview. It's the same reason Tetris's 425 million number isn't listed here, despite being mentioned and contextualized in its article (just like with Skyrim). Prefall 00:58, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Tetris comes from combining every version of the game rather than just one release Never17 (talk) 01:31, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Most likely, though that wasn't the reason Tetris was initially removed from this list. It was because the interview was deemed unreliable. Prefall 01:39, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oh i agree, i think it shouldn't count if you are bundling every different version of the game together since not all tetris's are the same. Otherwise we'd have to do that for the many remakes of Pokemon Generation 1. Never17 (talk) 01:40, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Most likely, though that wasn't the reason Tetris was initially removed from this list. It was because the interview was deemed unreliable. Prefall 01:39, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Tetris comes from combining every version of the game rather than just one release Never17 (talk) 01:31, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Most sales data in this article either comes from investor reports or official announcements by the publisher/developer. The reason the 60 million number for Skyrim is being dismissed is because of the manner in which it was given—an off-the-cuff remark in an interview. It's the same reason Tetris's 425 million number isn't listed here, despite being mentioned and contextualized in its article (just like with Skyrim). Prefall 00:58, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- Every single source on this article is a primary source, as there is no other indicator of video game sales. Rvanee (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- It's just a Wikipedia article, calm down. This page is protected to prevent potential vandals from disrupting the page or adding false material, see WP:PROTECTION. And please do not use wording like "This person must have some personal issue with Bethesda or Skyrim… or they’re just a conspiracy theorist." It's completely uncalled for. As for the response to the sales number itself, see the comment I already posted below. λ NegativeMP1 19:14, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Reported sales for Sonic The Hedgehog (1991) by platform
- Mobile - 8,000,000 copies by 2008 [1]
- Genesis / Mega Drive - 15,000,000 copies by 2011 [2]
- Google Play (Paid Downloads) - 10,000,000 copies by 2020 [3] (This game didn't become free to play until 2024)
- There's also the bundles with the Master System since it's release a system which reportedly sold 8 million in Brazil alone [4] , the re-release on the PS3 and Xbox Live arcade.
- The game has comfortably sold more than 30,000,000 copies worldwide and could be claimed as having sold up to 35 million. It definitely qualifies for this article Never17 (talk) 06:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
@Cider621: To rerail the discussion to what you intended with your post, the sales figure listed in the Sonic the Hedgehog article appears to be cumulative; it is combining the listed sales of specific versions of Sonic for a composite overall sales figure. There's nothing really wrong with that; if each sales figure included is supported by a reliable source, then Sonic could probably be included on this list. Unfortunately though, the source for one of the sales figures, the one for the Android version, does appear to be dubious, listing the sales figure as "500,000 - 1,000,000" installs. Lazman321 (talk) 18:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Call of Duty titles
[edit]There seem to be multiple COD games that are absent from the list. According to Dot Esports, which is currently listed as a reliable source per WP:VGS. However, this article might be a little bit outdated as it was published in December 2024. [5] Means one month before Stephen Totilo's updated sales figure of COD titles. [6]. I'm just making sure if there are any objections to this since this discussion was never brought up by someone. Kazama16 (talk) 04:03, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Situations like these are what I'm trying to correct in my suggestions topic on this page. Adding another row (with date of and link to the reliable source) is more efficient compared to knocking other titles off of the list. And if there's significant disagreement about the addition of the title, it can be added to the notable mentions subheading. Gbkang (talk) 01:00, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
Suggestions for article improvements
[edit]What are your thoughts on the following changes:
1. Changing criteria of making it onto the list from "Top 50" to "Sold more than 25 million copies." This can later be changed to 30 million copies if too many games make it onto the list. It would also help solve conflicts between users as to which game belongs on the list and which doesn't for the games in the 45-50th spot.
2. Including a column something along the lines of "As of x date," since it's a dynamic list and obviously changes with time like some other Wiki page dynamic lists have. This sounds important since reliable sources for every game are not released all at once for every single game in existence. This column could possibly be combined with the "Ref." column and/or include a few short words on the source in addition to the references on the bottom for readability since it's notable to share for readers. Although the second part about including a few short words seems a bit redundant to me, however still a minor suggestion. Lastly, this combined with suggestion 1 can ensure that games that currently get knocked off the top 50 list are still reported, as it can reasonably be assumed that the game that gets knocked off has continued selling copies of the game (particularly if it's still available)
3. Adding a subheading with a list of notable mentions (this one can be over 50 million copies?). This list could include games that can be reasonably concluded as making it onto the list without an official source, yet still coming from a reliable source. Examples of games in this category can be games such as Skyrim sales being mentioned by Todd Howard in an "off-the-cuff remark" or the original release of Tetris. However, this might take some extra work from the community/myself and there may need to be a much clearer cutoff for what would make it to this list.
As an aside, semi-protection of this page isn't nonsense or the opposite of what Wikipedia is for. This is obviously a highly susceptible page for opinions and feelings to get in the way of facts and result in unnecessary vandalism. Despite that, I'm confident that anyone could agree that there are games missing from this list that should be there. There just needs to be a better way to ensure that those grey-area games that are added are accurately reported. I'd hope members of the community can add insight or build off my suggestions to ensure this happens while retaining validity. Sorry for the long message! Gbkang (talk) 00:48, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
- Just realizing that the issue with Skyrim and Tetris that some users were having were about the number of copies sold and not whether or not it belongs on the list. Please disregard those examples in suggestion 3, but the suggestion for other titles still stands. :) Gbkang (talk) 01:05, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2025
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Payday 2 should be on the list, having sold 40 million units according to the publisher starbreeze. (https://news.cision.com/starbreeze-ab/r/2023---the-year-of-payday,c3691450) Laischdon (talk) 04:51, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
List rework
[edit]Would anyone be opposed to me reworking this article at some point in the future to be more like List of best-selling albums? Basically what this would mean is reworking the page to list every game that has been confirmed to have sold over a certain benchmark (probably twenty million copies), further break down the list to sort by sale ranges (20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50+), and revoke the top 50 shtick. In most circumstances I would be bold and just do it anyways, but reworking an entire page that has over 195,000 pageviews in the past month this drastically seems like something consensus would need to be reached on. λ NegativeMP1 16:45, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
- I've seen the "remove the top 50 and expand to tiers" idea floated around a few times, but I have to say I'm just not a fan of it. I like that this list has a hard cap and that it feels "connected" in a single table. Tiered lists have a very "disconnected" or "split" look that doesn't work for me. The hard cap prevents future bloat and avoids the inevitable discussion about raising the cut-off every few years. Plus, 50 entries seems just right—anything more and it stops feeling like a prestigious list of best-sellers.
- I'm not opposed to reworking or expanding the list in other ways. Like, the "As of" suggestion from the discussion above seems like a good addition for clarity. Prefall 00:01, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- The "As of" idea was one I had in mind as well, I'm just concerned about the table having too much information or becoming bloated if it gets added. And while I see where you're coming from with the "disconnected" or "split" lists not working that well, I personally disagree with the "anything more and it stops feeling like a prestigious list of best-sellers" statement, because selling over 20-25 million units is still no joke. To me, it would still be a pretty major achievement and wouldn't decentivize the list at all even if greatly expanded to include every game that has sold above that number. λ NegativeMP1 00:16, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
- I once brought up a similar topic but instead, I wanted the list to be top 25 so it would make things less complicated. Therefore I'm not really finding this idea any amusing and rather keep this a straightforward list. Kazama16 (talk) 19:28, 20 February 2025 (UTC)
- The "As of" idea was one I had in mind as well, I'm just concerned about the table having too much information or becoming bloated if it gets added. And while I see where you're coming from with the "disconnected" or "split" lists not working that well, I personally disagree with the "anything more and it stops feeling like a prestigious list of best-sellers" statement, because selling over 20-25 million units is still no joke. To me, it would still be a pretty major achievement and wouldn't decentivize the list at all even if greatly expanded to include every game that has sold above that number. λ NegativeMP1 00:16, 19 February 2025 (UTC)
The Oregon Trail
[edit]I wanted to have a discussion first before the inclusion of this entry on the list. The Oregon Trail (1971) has reportedly sold 65 million units according to USA Today.[7] However, I'm getting some Tetris vibes from this where the creator of Tetris was presenting the sales by counting every single version of Tetris and it was advised not to include it on this list per multiple previous discussions. Although I'm surprised no one talked about The Oregon Trail sales for almost a decade now. Kazama16 (talk) 14:17, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- After rechecking multiple sources. I think it's different from the case of Tetris as it's only about the sale figures of The Oregon Trail from 1971 and not about the whole series. [8] [9] [10] Kazama16 (talk) 18:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not so sure about that. This article from The Atlantic says it is 65 million sales across its iterations. Not to mention, why would a text-based game with no graphics sell so many copies, especially when it is not even the most popular version of The Oregon Trail. Lazman321 (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- It doesn't say that the sales figure includes those iterations. It is after the timespan of 40 years and those iterations. Also the phrase "most widely distributed educational game of all time" refers to a single game, and not series. Kazama16 (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not so sure about that. This article from The Atlantic says it is 65 million sales across its iterations. Not to mention, why would a text-based game with no graphics sell so many copies, especially when it is not even the most popular version of The Oregon Trail. Lazman321 (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
Counter Strike Global Offensive
[edit]According to a official data leak taken from Valve's own steam data, CSGO sold more than 46 Million copies by July 2018 prior to going F2P on Steam. Because this data is pulled real numbers from Valve’s own backend, means it's not an estimate from third parties but rather an official internal data point that briefly became public which lead to a scandal. Therefore shouldn't CSGO be raised to sales of 46,305,966? [11] Never17 (talk) 03:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- They are displaying the players, not sales. For comparison, there are many cases like this where the game is not free to play but if the source refers to "this game has this amount of players" and not "this amount of sales or copies/units sold" then it probably not gonna be on this list because it would be more precise and accurate. You can take Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag for example where Ubisoft confirmed it has 34 million players and interestingly the game is not free to play. Therefore, you won't find a reputable source citing that it has sold 34 million units. See this article from Gamekult to understand better. [12] Kazama16 (talk) 05:50, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- Ah okay, got it Never17 (talk) 10:12, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's not uncommon for reliable sources (in particular journalistic ones) to wrongly report a figure (for example confusing sales and players) if the sales numbers are not the main subject of the source. If there is no official communication from the publisher to be found and if only one supposedly reliable source mentions it, it's probably because they made a mistake or are quoting a rumor.
- Case in point, the source used for CSGO says it "sold more than 40 million game copies" but it pulls this information from Steam Spy - a third party which gives estimates about players not sales - in June 2018. Quand nous chanterons (talk) 12:37, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- There are other sources listed too not just Steam Spy and fact checking is a thing too. It just a theory that they might use Steam Spy but there is no guarantee about it. Kazama16 (talk) 13:02, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- This is not a theory? It says in the fourth page : "The combination of the two aspect result can be seen in the popularity of the CS:GO. Since their release on 21st August 2012, CS:GO has been sold more than 40 million copies of the game with 88% user rating and more than 400,000 daily active players [10]." (the [10] referencing "[10] SteamSpy, 2015. [online]. Available: https://steamspy.com/. [Accessed: 26-Jun-2018]"). Quand nous chanterons (talk) 13:09, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification. Removed now from the list. Kazama16 (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- This is not a theory? It says in the fourth page : "The combination of the two aspect result can be seen in the popularity of the CS:GO. Since their release on 21st August 2012, CS:GO has been sold more than 40 million copies of the game with 88% user rating and more than 400,000 daily active players [10]." (the [10] referencing "[10] SteamSpy, 2015. [online]. Available: https://steamspy.com/. [Accessed: 26-Jun-2018]"). Quand nous chanterons (talk) 13:09, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- There are other sources listed too not just Steam Spy and fact checking is a thing too. It just a theory that they might use Steam Spy but there is no guarantee about it. Kazama16 (talk) 13:02, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- Ah okay, got it Never17 (talk) 10:12, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
Remakes
[edit]Do Remakes have their sales count towards the sales of the original game, IE something like Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green or do we only include ports? Never17 (talk) 02:05, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- No since they're much different from their original releases, the exceptions seem to be the remake of Super Mario Bros on the Game Boy Advance (formally Mario 3 and World's remakes on the Game Boy Advance too). Personally based on that distinction Tetris on the NES and Tetris on the Game Boy should be combined in my opinion, since they were both developed by Nintendo and were marketed to be the same game but on different platforms, releasing in the same year. LaughinElf (talk) 03:05, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- Okay so remakes are used only if it's basically the same as the original game with minor graphical changes. That makes sense, by this metric we should combine Tetris on the NES and Game Boy as well as potentially other games that fit this definition Never17 (talk) 03:17, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- According to the Guardian, the original version of Tetris sold 70 million copies worldwide from it's various remakes and re-releases by 2009 [13] So we should probably include that Never17 (talk) 03:30, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- No, that wouldn't be fair enough. We should only combine the original version and their enhanced versions. Tetris NES and Game Boy are usually treated as different games so no we shouldn't combine them. Remake is a whole another thing. Like Resident Evil 4 and its remake are different things. Even BBC is against the idea of counting various versions of Tetris as a singular game. [14] Kazama16 (talk) 05:41, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- According to the Guardian, the original version of Tetris sold 70 million copies worldwide from it's various remakes and re-releases by 2009 [13] So we should probably include that Never17 (talk) 03:30, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
- Okay so remakes are used only if it's basically the same as the original game with minor graphical changes. That makes sense, by this metric we should combine Tetris on the NES and Game Boy as well as potentially other games that fit this definition Never17 (talk) 03:17, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2025
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Change Skyrim sales from 30,000,000 to 60,000,000; 30,000,000 figure is now 10 year old data and Bethesda CEO stated 60,000,000 sold in 2023. https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/mustafa-mahmoud/skyrim-has-officially-sold-over-60-million-copies/ Ajthorpe95 (talk) 17:52, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
Not done per a talk page consensus mentioned many times above. The method in which that 60 million sales figure was disclosed is widely viewed as inadequate. λ NegativeMP1 18:21, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2025 (2)
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Im family fun (talk) 19:16, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
I WANT TO EDIT SKYRIM SOLD 60 MILLION NOT 40 MILLION
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ToThAc (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)